Wednesday, November 23, 2011

Reason Comes to Life

The other day I posted a little ditty called “Why I Vote Democrat”. One of the lines was I vote democrat because I’m not concerned about millions of babies being aborted so long as we keep all death row inmates alive.

Lo and behold, the very liberal Governor of Oregon John Kitzhaber (D) has decided not to allow any executions while he is Governor. Interestingly enough, he is quite pro-choice, which is another way of saying he supports unfettered access to abortions.

So let me get this straight, he is against the death penalty, yet supports the lawful execution of the unborn. On the one hand it fails the "basic standards of justice" and on the other it is OK to use abortion as a means of birth control, oh, I mean basic reproductive rights. He is against the killing of someone who has committed a heinous crime, yet has no issue with the death of the innocent.

I point out this not as a way to get a pro life/pro choice argument started, but as a way to point out the possibility of a discrepancy.

I do want to let you all know that I am not a 100% supporter of the death penalty. I do believe it has its uses, but there are enough issues to give me pause. However, I am not a supporter of abortion except for extreme cases (incest, danger to mother, rape), but still struggle with an outright ban (limited government interference in our lives). Oddly enough, my views on both have evolved over the years as I have aged and mellowed (somewhat).


  1. Righty,

    I am old enough to well remember the days when women got their abortions in back rooms from some fly by night jackass with a coat hangar. I would not wish that off on anyone.

    Secondly all the manure that gets spread by the anti abortion goons stops me cold. Many of them claim to be pro-liberty, freedom loving, patriots. Yet, on this issue it is their way or you are a criminal. Show me in the Constitution where this is covered. Do you see a bit of a dilemma?

    Next, ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny. So do not hand me the human life begins at conception crap. If that is your view, fine, I respect that. It is NOT my view; YOU respect that!!!

    Lastly, you are a man. Next time you get pregnant, you make the decision for YOU. About my own decision shut the fuck up! YOU have NO SAY in my life. And since we both are men, other than our own wives, it is NONE OF OUR BUSINESS.


  2. Well now, It seems that I have hit a nerve with this post. I really wanted to point out that liberals tend to have a double standard. It is OK for them to kill the unborn, yet don't support the death penalty. That is a double standard. Whether you believe that life begins at conception or not, it is still ending a creation that is living, breathing, grwoing. Granted, the baby depends on the mother for life support, but it is still a living, breathing, growing creature. It depends ont he mother for support, yet it is a separate entity.

    In all honesty, I don't know what the answer is. I do not support abortion, but cannot bring myself to, or support laws that, interfere with the lives of others to make that difficult decision. They are the ones who have to live with the knowledge that they have terminated a living, breathing, growing creature.

    The diffiuclt part for me in all this is my Christian faith. Life is sacred in all cases, whether the unborn or those on death row. So I do have struggles, but that is between me and the Lord. In Romans (can't remember the chapter and verse) God says that vengence belongs to Him and to Him alone and that He will take care of those matters when the times comes.

    BTW: I posted your comment because you have made some very good points, and I will not and do not censor those of opposing views. But I will say this; please clean up the language. You could have typed "shut the heck up" I'm not a prude and occasionaly the language does slip, but I prefer for it not to be on my site. Hopefully you can respect that 'cause I do enjoy the back and forth.

    Best Regards,

    PACNW Righty

  3. Righty,

    I apologize for that lapse.

    C'mon man, the very worst murderous historical events can be hung on the church. Trying to tell me that Christians don't do that sort of thing is utter nonsense. And the Old Testament is FULL of it. Kill all; men, women, children, dogs, livestock, burn everything to the ground.

    The way is not difficult or confusing. Liberty is based upon two precepts; one, do everything you say you will do. And two, do not encroach upon the person or property of anyone else.

    The Bible Thumpers pound their chest with nonsense righteousness. Everyone else wants it THEIR way, otherwise you are a criminal. As you have said so often, liberty is the way.

    Regarding the criminals on death row, I used to be of the opinion they all needed execution RFN.

    However, with the insanely overzealous prosecutors out there who care not a whit for the truth combined with soooo many being as innocent as they claimed by virtue of DNA evidence, I have changed that position and now no longer support the death penalty.

    I do believe our courts have failed us with way too many judges creating their own laws. And prosecutors who fail in their oath and in their practice.


  4. Winston, 1.7 killed in Cambodia, 20 million dead in the Soviet Union, and more than 7 million lives lost in non-combat casualties (Jews, Gypsies, and even some Catholics) during WW II. None of these countries and the leaders who initiated these killings would even remotely resemble anyone religious nor were they committed by the church. I think one might be hard-pressed to come up with similar numbers killed in the name of the “the church.” Most people like to mention the Crusades in the early part of the last millennium and the events surrounding the Spanish Inquisition, even those numbers pale in comparison to the numbers listed above. And I am not even including the atrocities committed in the Far East (China and Korea) in the 1930s where some estimates put the number killed well into the millions.

    One thing I would like to point out about the Bible and Christianity. When Jesus came to earth and then was finished with his teaching (crucifixion) the New Testament was written and the ways of the Old Testament were done with. God’s reasoning for the events in the Old Testament was to cleanse the world of sinners (The Flood, Sodom and Gomorra, etc.). When Jesus died on the cross, it was for our sins, and God no longer needed to bring his wrath down because he provided a way and that was Grace through the death and resurrection of Jesus.

    As for your point about Liberty having to precepts, I’d like to add a third. Responsibility. Without responsibility, there really cannot be true liberty. Absence of responsibility leads to anarchy.